MR TPD TV with Rob Kellas

2 Promoters, 1 Pod

In this episode of 2 Promoters 1 Pod, hosts James and Gavin welcome Rob Kellas from TPD TV to discuss the intersection of music festival promotion and

Key takeaways

• US festivals are facing a financial crisis because they are paying roughly three times the artist fees required for club shows.
• Rob Kellass's TPD TV achieves massive engagement, with Arctangent videos reaching over 130,000 views.

Main topics

• Festival economics and artist fees
• YouTube content creation strategies

Notable quotes

The festivals are paying three times the fee for the artists that the club shows are paying.

Conclusion

A valuable look at how digital media is reshaping festival visibility

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:11) We go again. Speaker 2 (0:15) Afternoon mate, Speaker 1 (0:16) how are you doing? Speaker 2 (0:17) You okay? I'm pretty good, I'm pretty good. I'm looking forward to this one today. It's a bit different if you are coming from TPD TV channels to come and see Rob, who will be our guest. He will be with us in 10-15 minutes. If you want to ignore us completely and skip, you can get to him in 10-15 minutes. Or, if you want to understand why you've ended up here on this channel, James will tell you all about the Promoters One pod. Speaker 1 (0:45) Yeah, so we're a podcast that looks behind the scenes of the music industry. So it's about how things work, the logistics of organising festivals. So Gav runs Damnation Festival. I run 2000 Trees and Arctangent Festival. We both book the entire lineups at those festivals. So there's a lot of chat about booking bands. There's some stuff about the logistics of how you build a festival. Speaker 1 (1:10) how much everything costs how much how much does your headliner cost how much does your fencing and staging cost um mad rock mad stuff about riders and um just loads more really we have quite a lot of guests um like music managers promoters we had cam from download on um and our one of our most popular episodes was uh it's not all serious is it so we had stinky peat on who is the guy who does the toilets at 2000 trees but um you have to have quite a strong stomach to listen to that one but it's it's a good one so we release a new episode every week on a thursday 6 a.m this is episode 138 i think gav so if people were going to check us out if they were going to go to some banker two promoters one pod episodes where should they start Speaker 2 (1:55) james we've just done an ad read for our own podcast Speaker 2 (2:02) I was not expecting that. Mate, you fucking told Speaker 1 (2:05) me to do it. Speaker 2 (2:06) I'm James, I'm Gavin. You're like me. You just launched it. Do I owe you money for that? Speaker 1 (2:11) Mate, you said to me, do this properly. Don't fuck them out. So I just thought, okay. The Speaker 2 (2:16) best way I would describe it, so this week I was on Instagram, the reveal came up and it was this American, either a talk show or a podcast. And this promoter at quite a big festival, like a country music festival, was getting asked, why are so many festivals collapsing in the United States just now? And the guy was explaining that the festivals are paying three times the fee for the artists that the club shows are paying. And unless you're selling out and your bar takes amazing, the festivals are collapsing under the financial strain of it. And I was listening to the whole thing with my jaw open, like, this sounds like this guy's read my journal that I haven't even written yet. And it's like, my God, if that's the way that Two Promoters OnePod sounds to the listeners, I can understand why people are into it. So that's how I would suggest that Two Promoters OnePod is to new listeners. Episodes to check out. I don't know. I feel like we've always go back to the dark arts of band booking. It was like episode four or five. The Bolly Caballon, the very first one we ever did. Probably a wee bit nervous, but it gave you an idea of how line-up posters are put together. That is to take in very bit. maybe last week's one for a for a regular listeners like what the has happened to these two Speaker 2 (3:29) Serving themselves out for the TPD audience. Speaker 1 (3:32) Well, look, last week we had a big uplift in listeners and downloads, didn't we, from Macklemore and Adgeran. And then it feels like, oh, actually, the last few weeks have been really good on numbers. So it feels like there's new people here. So we should probably tell them what the fuck we do, I think is the idea. Speaker 2 (3:49) Okay, great. Usually, usually before any other episode, we'd have what we call the week of Speaker 1 (3:53) the Speaker 2 (3:53) waffle and it's what we get up to in our week. But we do have Rob coming on and we do have a thousand questions to ask us. We'll keep it. In fact, we'll even keep it brief. I'll just tune back in next week if you want to hear my reaction to that Slipknot review that I done last week that went fucking mental everywhere. I'm going to see Electric Wizard at the bar is that I'm quite happy to talk about. I'm glad to see Electric Wizard doing so well. Somehow found myself enjoying Interpol, which is a band I mixed up with another band for 20 years. And I feel like I've just robbed myself 20 years of listening to a band I would have liked because I was mixing them up with some other band. And tomorrow, As you listen to this, I will be at the Culk and Ian show at the Hug and Pint. I just got an email to say invite me along to that. So I'm going to see Culk, who I missed at Art Tangent. And Ian, who I also missed at Art Tangent. So that's a very concise debrief about my weekly waffle. And more we'll get into next week. Anything you want to say before we shout out to the Patreon and get Rob on? Speaker 1 (4:47) No, I'm good. I went to the circus this weekend. Very wholesome. Gifford Circus. Speaker 1 (4:54) and had a weekend of no bad behaviour. You had Speaker 2 (4:59) your voice note to me on a Friday, I was utterly depressed. You went, I'm not even having chocolate. Speaker 1 (5:09) There was nothing good happened this weekend. Just one tiny thing I wanted to say is I offered a band £500 to play 2000 Trees next year. And the agent replied to me and said, here's a list of venues they sold out on their last tour. Minimum 10 grand. And it was embarrassing. I was like, it's like going back to school. It's like... You have got this wrong. This isn't an agent taking the piss. This is me fucking it up. So I just wanted to hold my hands up to you, Gareth, and just be like, every so often you still do these stupid things. And actually, I'm probably not going to book that band because I don't want them enough. Speaker 2 (5:46) Okay, okay, fair enough. We could maybe touch on that a wee bit more next week as well. So get us up to speed on the Patreon. A wee bit of housekeeping then, a wee Patreon, what's happening there. Speaker 1 (5:57) Yeah, so we've got two Patreons. I'm Adam Sloan. It says, I'd really like it if you could give a big shout out on the pod to the ATG Solo group. I went to my first ATG in 2022 and like many others, don't really have anyone in my direct friend group that's willing to dedicate a full weekend camping to listen to the kind of mad shit that we all go nuts for. I decided to pitch up on my own, having found what was then the ATG Solo Facebook group that had just been set up online. Fast forward four years and the number of people that come and camp with the ATG Solo group has grown hugely. I probably estimate this year there were anything between 50 and 100 people in the solo camp and there's a hugely active online community WhatsApp group throughout the year that's close to 250 members. Along with of course the music and the overall festival vibes this group is one of the reasons I now come back to ATG year after year. I've made some fantastic friends and every year there's now a chance to see familiar faces that I've camped with over the last five ATGs. as well as many wonderful new faces that come each year from far and wide. So this is really a huge thank you from me to the ATG Solo Group for making my festival such a wonderful experience. It's also a chance to use the pod to say there really isn't any festival that's more welcoming or suitable for solo festival goers than ATG. If you're in the same position as me and many others, then I'd encourage you to take the plunge and get a ticket on your own and come and join the rest of the ATG Solo family over at the new site in 2027. Solo, but never alone. Nice. Thanks, Adam. So in terms of requests, Adam would like... It's quite an interesting request, Adam. How about any kind of early access to the site layout when it's ready for the ATG Solar Group so we have a chance to coordinate between each other where the new camp will be next year? Speaker 1 (7:45) I mean, it's a weird thing with this new site because I'm going there next week and we're still working on the site plan. So we don't have anything to send to Adam. So what I would recommend is Adam drops me a message early next year and let's have a chat and see what we can do. We'll definitely get you something. I don't know if you'll be able to share it with 250 people on WhatsApp because then it will end up online. I might just get it for you, Adam, and you can then... Speaker 2 (8:14) But even still, so let's say you were going to announce it. Are you going to put the site plan out on the Friday and you gave them it on the Monday? It's going to get leaked. I mean, the site plan will get leaked, but would it be such a bad thing for the solo group, the people that take the time to go and build a friendship group at Uptangent and get to see the site plan first? Talk all about your people. Speaker 1 (8:33) I will. I'll talk over with Rob, who will no doubt be ecstatic to hear. I think the challenge is that we haven't got a finished site plan yet. So, Adam, these are the hardest Patreon things to do. You have to remind me next year. OK, thank you, though. The second one is from a guy who sent us... ..who's anonymous, right? Speaker 2 (8:55) I don't think he even wanted to say that. Fine, OK, we'll keep him anonymous then, because he said... He said to me, I don't need the value you just said and don't need to say my name. So, aye. Oh, sorry. Well, I think Shifty can beat that bit. So the value that I've probably just said twice now, it doesn't need to be there. But it's the sweetest, sweetest fucking message ever. This isn't even a Patreon. This is just something that you can't buy shoutouts, but the guy done it. This one's a good one. He wants to make, he wants a shoutout to his pals, Mike Wilburn and Andy Stokoe. who both turned 40 today. Both his pals turned 40 today, September 24th, when this podcast is reaching you. He wants a wee mention to his pal, Phil Vickers 2, who it's not his birthday, and he just wants to let them know that he loves them. We've been to all three festivals at different times over the years, but we don't see each other as often as we'd like, and he just wants to tell you all that you mean the world to him. Happy birthday. He's a legend, and you too, Phil. So, I thought... Fair play. What a kind donation for us to the birthday of the podcast. At least we could do it to shout out to our listeners who are celebrating their 40th day. Go and smash it. Speaker 1 (10:10) So what you're really saying to people is they don't know how much money has been given. If you want a shout out, if you want to bypass the jug of joy queue, you've got to put X amount of money in the bank account. It has to be an Speaker 2 (10:23) obscene donation, right? Check Speaker 1 (10:26) this out. I bought a record by Failure, a record by Chatpile, a record by Pussifer, and a record by Russian Circles. All the new albums from this year with that money. Thank you. Speaker 2 (10:38) We have, we have. So that gives you some sort of idea then. Thank you so much to the person who should not be named. Oh Speaker 1 (10:45) shit. I've done a really bad job of this, haven't I? Speaker 2 (10:47) I've pre-picked a winner so we can get through this quicker. Josh Leyland, you are the super sub from this week's Jug of Joy. Before we get Rob on, who'll be due here in our time in five minutes, let's have a quick shout out to the sponsors, who'll be well chuffed if there has been some fucking overlap with TBD today. Eyesoremerch, eyesoremerch.com. Hope everybody took advantage and they are offered a free delivery over the weekend. If you haven't, don't worry, there's still time to get the pod 10 discount. They have everything on this merch site, from Oasis to Obituary, Raging Speed Taunt to Radiohead, and Eminem to Entombed. Official t-shirts. from the bands themselves for less than 20 quid. Go and get your t-shirts from there. Use POD10 at checkout and you can get it delivered for less than 20 quid. You go to the same show and see these bands, these artists play, you're going to be paying 30, 40, 50 quid. It's the same official licensed merch space. isomercs.com Use POD10 at checkout. Thank you for those who stuck with us for that bit of housekeeping and before we invite the wonderful Rob Kerris. Mr. Rob Keras. Speaker 3 (11:57) Hello, hello. Welcome to Two Promoters, One Pod. How are you, sir? Good, mate. Good. Thanks for having me, fellas. I feel like it's been a long time coming. Speaker 2 (12:06) You're an in-demand guest, that's for sure. Love Speaker 3 (12:09) to hear it. Well, you guys are the ultimate podcast in the space, so it's a privilege to be here with both of you. Speaker 2 (12:17) I like to hear that because I noticed I was listening to the view from the afternoon you put out, would have been last week with Mary, and is it your call sign about the most productive podcast or something? The most consistent. The most consistent? I was like, oh, James, we'll stop for a Christmas break once in three years. I mean, are we putting up with that? Speaker 3 (12:38) What, and you've been weekly ever since? Like, aside from that? Speaker 2 (12:41) Yeah. Oh, Speaker 3 (12:42) well, we're nowhere near then. Speaker 2 (12:44) We're nowhere Speaker 3 (12:44) near. I'll revise it in my next intro. Speaker 3 (12:51) Good. Most consistent Speaker 1 (12:53) podcast after Two Promoters One Podcast. Yeah, do you know what? Speaker 3 (12:55) I'm very happy to be on the podium with you. Speaker 2 (12:59) Aye, mate, mate, we appreciate it. So James, tell us, in fact, Rob, tell us, we've done the first sort of 10, 15 minutes maybe trying to introduce ourselves to any crossover audience that comes from TBD, which is a fucking sizable audience. you set the table for our audience who perhaps haven't come across yours yet tell us about yourself the background the channel and its success sure Speaker 3 (13:22) thing so hello everybody my name's rob and i am one part of the team that makes up something called tpd tv which is a youtube channel ultimately and we specialize in covering in quotes uh music festivals so we go all around the world and go to as many music festivals as we can and try and show people what their experience is going to be like if they buy a ticket. We don't really lean too into anything outside of the general admission. Sometimes there are exceptions. But yeah, we're big, big lovers of live music and festivals and we want to show people. Give them an idea of maybe where to put their money, where to vote with their wallets, if they can maybe do a festival or two per year. And that's what we do. We've done it somewhat successfully now for a number of years. And yeah, it's brilliant to be fair. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of hard work as well, which is kind of all behind the scenes. The main aim of the game is to entertain and to spread the word about brilliant live music. Or not so brilliant live music, depending on where we are. Speaker 2 (14:40) Yeah, I mean, you've been a wee bit modest as I'd expect you to be with saying that he's done reasonably successfully. I mean, if I was to put you on the spot, are you the most successful in this space? Like, is there a bigger audience for this type of reviews? I mean, out with you, I don't know if Rolling Stone have got a channel or whatever, then fair enough. But when you're actually like content creators, which we can get to in a moment, but content creators who go out, are you on top of that podium? Speaker 3 (15:08) I don't like to say it, but I think as a technicality, we are. We've got a lot of tenure. We've got a big team. So we probably are. on top of that imaginary podium um just through circumstance really um so yeah i shouldn't i shouldn't be so humble yeah we're Speaker 1 (15:27) the Speaker 3 (15:27) best we're Speaker 1 (15:27) the Speaker 2 (15:27) top but Speaker 1 (15:30) i mean just to give people an idea of numbers there's like the arctangent video which you released like two months ago well less than a month ago right has had 130 000 views on youtube right so it's not it's done well no doubt when you do reading or whatever it's a lot or hell fest it's probably way way higher and that's Speaker 3 (15:49) a Speaker 1 (15:49) lot that's a lot of views right it's certainly i like to Speaker 3 (15:52) because we're in kind of the way looking at live music i like to kind of compare it to a venue so when you compare it to a venue it it's it's quite a sizable audience and i'm very we're very fortunate to have to have those eyes on us each week Speaker 2 (16:07) yeah i mean i have to say i was um i was um when you came along to Damnation No last year, maybe 2023. And I was about like, and there's always a wee bit, because I've been guessing on our podcast as well, and there's a wee bit like... Their numbers in particular aren't of interest to me, but their numbers when I'm on, I don't want to be an embarrassment to the podcast. You know what I mean? Joe Rogan does a guest 10 million listeners and he's Speaker 3 (16:32) got Speaker 2 (16:32) some scientists on and like 50 people tuning in. So when you guys done it, I was like, oh my God. I mean, they're just coming off Coachella and Hellfest and Glastonbury and even James' festivals. The Trees especially is a much bigger event than Damnation. But 115,000 views for something that takes 6,000 punters. I was like, talk about punching above its meat. Speaker 3 (16:53) Yeah, I always like to compare the view count to the capacity of the event. And if we can hit the capacity of the event, then I'm generally happy. And if we can do it a few times over, then I'm really, really happy as well. Speaker 2 (17:12) So, firstly, thanks for coming along and doing that. And great, I went for the sort of fingers through the eyes for the fingers. Oh my God, is this going to do more than 3,000 views? And then when it got up over 100,000, fair play. You've done a lot of sizable outdoor festivals. I mean, your Kendall Collins, you've done a few times that are similar numbers. And I assume the Kendall Collins, what, 30,000, 40,000 capacity festival. So, I was quite chuffed with that. We're patting Damnation in the back, patting your viewers in the back, I'd say, for going and checking out an event like that. Speaker 3 (17:42) Yeah, I was really, it gives me no greater pleasure than to showcase an event like yours because obviously you're capturing it. Anyone that's into the Damnation type of stuff knows about Damnation, but there might be someone out there that doesn't even know they're into that type of stuff until they maybe see a clip of Insert Band here. shredding it Speaker 2 (18:07) well then sell band here is that you'd have on you how much you love dragged into sunlight Speaker 3 (18:12) in it yeah it's dragged into sunlight i was gonna say them but i didn't want to i feel like that's i've mentioned them so much um i didn't want to flog the dead horse but wow i mean that blew me away and and we are we had a great time at your event and we will be returning this year with your if you're kind enough to have us and always you know maybe we'll maybe it'll do well again maybe it won't but we know we know we like it Speaker 2 (18:34) Well, listen, to be fair, and I thought you were coming again this year, I'm always guest, so if you're coming again to do some footy, then fucking brilliant, absolutely. It's one of those weird ones, we'll get into some of those questions later about how you cover bit difficult, like, how you cover festivals like ours that can be a bit more difficult than our glass, but I want to knock a couple of things on the head quickly that people ask from our forums that I normally wouldn't be that interested in, but it's surprising that I don't know. Someone said... What the hell does TPD stand for, right? Now, being a journalist I am, I said, well, I'll just go and find out myself. And you have apparently answered in interviews before, total predator death, travel drinking party, and at some point saying, actually nothing, it was an in-joke that was made up at the time, it doesn't mean anything. So set the record straight, Rob, does it mean anything or is it an in-joke for you guys? Speaker 3 (19:25) It does mean something. It's none of those, I've never heard of them ones you just mentioned. Speaker 3 (19:34) It's something really underwhelming. I'm not going to tell you what it is. Yeah. But it's something, it was the name of a group chat that we had. And I've always jokingly said, I'll tell everyone if we ever hit a million subscribers, which categorically we will not do. I can guarantee that. But if we do, it will be really underwhelming. It's a reference to a... to a famous scene in one of our favorite television shows um but that's all i'm gonna give you for now um but it is so it's not like i would tell people and they'd be like wow i'm so enlightened it all makes sense it it couldn't be less interesting but it's nice to keep it behind the curtain because everyone people started saying what's it mean what's it mean because the channel used to just be called rob kellis right when it was a one camera show And then when we kind of started getting everyone a bit more involved, it was like, that doesn't really sit right with me. So we just renamed it after the group chat. So there wasn't really a lot of thought put into it. So it's going to be pretty underwhelming if we ever do reveal it. Speaker 2 (20:44) I mean, those stories are always the worst, aren't they? It's like, actually, when you get the answer to it, I mean, it's like the end of the... Anyone who's not seen The Sopranos by now, it's your own fault, but you get to the end of it, does Tony die or not die? And it's a bit like the end of the special bit because it leaves you hanging. If you actually got the answer to it, you would be underwhelmed. So I get you. You... A lot of people would see with his success yet that they would... The same assumption even gets made with Two Promoters, One Pod, which is a much smaller channel. there's money there's serious money getting made to you I'm like a two person but are you able to make a living for a channel as successful as yours? Speaker 3 (21:19) Yes, mate, I am. I'll be totally honest with you guys, obviously without getting into specifics. The channel does really, really well. But our cost of operation is so high also. So we're super fortunate to have a number of revenue streams. And I would be lying if I said we don't do very well. From that pot, I take a salary, which is pretty modest. It's less than what I was earning when I worked full-time at Apple, which was my job before jumping into full-time. But... Our cost of operation is through the roof. So we do end the year making a profit overall, but we will spend thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds getting out to these festivals in America, tickets for those festivals, hotels. It's astronomical. I sometimes wish that we just made gaming reviews. That's something I always wanted to do. I'm a massive nerd. And I started... doing gaming reviews in like 2005 just for myself. I should have stuck with that because I'd have a much nicer roof over my head right now. Speaker 2 (22:42) It's never too late. I mean, just get an extra channel going if your workload isn't too much. Last thing for me before I let James start grilling you with some of the fan questions. Is there any group of people worse in the world than beer snobs? I mean, how many times do we need to listen to people who drink an IPA rather than just your standard beer? I like James is going to nod his head now because he is one of these people. Oh, James. Rob, how do you, not a bit of getting annoyed or angry, people are allowed to have some sort of input back. You go to wherever, anywhere in the world you do a festival and the guy, you're holding a Stella and a Budweiser and a Carling or whatever it is that you, Mary and the team choose to drink and then the feedback and you're... fucking weekend waffer walkers you went with a carling rob how much does that just like pass you off man of Speaker 3 (23:32) all the things we get criticized for and there's plenty of them um the beer one it makes me laugh because it's one of them ones that people will criticize us for for having a bud wise i was thrilled to be having a red stripe the other week at linda's fan i was buzzing um and you know we get oh that's piss water Fair enough, man. But like the good thing with that is no one's, no one's too serious about it. Like even, even at least that I've seen, like even the people that drink Hobgoblin, they can like, they can diss us in like a laughing kind of way. But, but yeah, it is, it is funny in it. It is funny. Speaker 2 (24:11) It's absolutely the same. I've just, my friends are the same. Like all my lifelong friends, I've tried them with a damnation. We've got a damnation beer. I've tried them with some of James's Arbor beer and they're just like, Gav, just give me the stever. I mean, why are you trying to make me drink something that I don't like? Is it okay? We've Speaker 3 (24:29) had approaches for collaborations with beers before and... And we've entertained the conversation. We're grateful to get these opportunities. But ultimately, when it comes down to it, it's like, I can't be like co-signing something that's not... Like, if you can make it taste like a Budweiser, then I'll happily slap the TPD name on it. I'm the... Speaker 2 (24:56) I'm the first to say that I said I don't drink beer and Budweiser's undrinkable, but I feel the same way a bit across the board. So anyway, enough of me peppermint stuff. James, what do the people want to know? Speaker 1 (25:07) You don't want to hear my opinion on beer then? Speaker 2 (25:09) No, Speaker 3 (25:10) not at all. I think what is worth saying, James, is if we were all the same, the world would be boring, wouldn't it? Speaker 1 (25:17) Absolutely. Absolutely. I enjoyed your sister just refusing to even try the beers at Arctangent. What was it? Just Speaker 3 (25:23) being Speaker 1 (25:23) like, nah. Was it Hell's? Yeah, but it's not Camden Hells. It's made by Arbor. So it's the same. They do every beer at Art Tangent, but the larger is Hells, yeah. I enjoyed the cider at Art Tangent. Speaker 3 (25:34) I Speaker 1 (25:35) broke my no cider rule in order to enjoy the drink. We'll let it go. So we've got millions of questions from the podcast socials. So the first one's from Adam Robertshaw, who wanted to know, how has becoming a festival reviewer changed your experience of attending festivals for the better or worse? Speaker 3 (25:55) Good question. There's some stuff that's better, some stuff that's worse. It used to be when I used to go to festivals just for the love of the game. It was an excitement like nothing else, you know, and I'm sure you guys will feel an excitement on the lead up to your events and I'm sure an anxiety and a stress and all the emotions. But when we used to do like Leeds Fest, I first went in 2009 and then from 2009 to maybe 2013, it would be like Christmas. Like I would count down, it would get to August and we'd be in the group chat. We'd be, oh, it's late. We would be so, so buzzing. And it would, I'd be lying if I said that excitement is still there on that level. It's not that we enjoy the events less, but when you're lucky enough to do one every single week, it does become a bit routine. You know, I love Anandos and I have Anandos every week. Don't mean I don't love it. It's just not quite as exciting as if. It was rare. Speaker 1 (27:00) So that's one of the downsides. Just the work element of it, like the fact that you've actually got to come out of it with, you know, the Arc Tangent Veneer is an hour long, the Trees video is nearly an hour and a half. Does that affect your enjoyment of the festival? Speaker 3 (27:13) It can do, yeah. It depends. I'm very, the guys will tell you on our team that I do get quite stressed out and I'll be like, we haven't covered enough. We haven't seen this. We haven't done this, that and the other. I used to get... very stressed about that. Our audience feedback in the last year has kind of been, they enjoy just hanging out with us at the event through the screen more so than us comprehensively reviewing everything. So that's made me get a little bit less stressed about that stuff when I'm on site. But I am still always thinking like, what do i need to do where have we not been how do we how do we pace the video like if i let's say at arc tangent there was like i think one or two of the tents that like we'd have probably if we were there just as punt as we'd have probably gone on that first day to see some artists in there but we were like to keep the flow of the video we need to save them for tomorrow so that we're not capturing too much today you know keeping it spread so there is a kind of There is a big workload balance kind of spinning plates thing that goes on in my head. I guess I've done it for so long now and I've done it so many times, it's almost unconscious though. So it's not a huge stress. If we go to a big event that's been a long, long, long time coming, like the first time we went to Glastonbury, first and only time, or like the first time we went to Coachella, that's when... stressed Rob comes out and I'm generally not very fun to be around. And I apologize to the guys afterwards and they say, it's fine. But like, I'm like, why have you, why are we not filming this? We need to go and look at the Oxfam tent. We need to see this brand activation. We need to, you know, so that does happen, but I'm getting a bit Speaker 1 (29:01) better with that now. And for the people that don't know your channel, how many festivals approximately did you go to this year? Like every weekend, is it? Speaker 3 (29:10) This year was, I think, 21, maybe 19, actually. It was our quietest year since 2022. But it's still quite a few. That's not every... every single week most of them are sequential weeks in the summer but we've got stuff as early as like February where there's might be a one-off in France and then April one in May it really ramps up like June all the way through to like first week of September and Speaker 2 (29:41) when do you when do you start that planning when have you got when you're looking at the calendar and saying right okay January or February this is what we're going to do and so we better start ruling with it because I assume There's a lot of interest in getting